Curse

Zeph · Jan 06, 2007, 04:12 PM // 16:12

I have been putting up with this since the release of NF but I have finally got to the point where I am so frustrated by it that I must post, hopefully someone from Anet will read this and look into the problem.

The problem I am referring too is when your character 'rubber bands' back into a pack in enemies which you have already passed. I used to get this on rare occasions before but since NF's release it is happening almost everyday, to the point where I am rage quiting way too much. I'll go into detail on the problem and why I think it is not a problem my end but more to do with a bug in anet's net code.

I do a lot of solo stuff, be that sliver farming with my sin or IDS farming with my ranger, which often involves a few running skills. The problem appears when you are trying to run past a pack of enemies. Your character runs past and your on your way but then you start taking hits from no where and next thing your teleported back into the pack you have already run passed.

Here is a screenie of it happening to me today...

The things to look for in the pic are:

1 - I am passed the pack of enemies. (that's the important one)
2 - I am still inside the ward cast by the jade mage.
3 - I press attack (this sometimes makes the game catch up) and I am hitting a target that I am no where near. See the -2 above his head.
4 - The green fps/ping monitor is green, showing I was not lagging.

Now before someone posts with the standard replies of "Your pc is crap, update it!" or "it's your ISP", let me explain.

This happens on different systems connected to the net via different ISPs. My PC specs are: athlon64 dual core 4200+, GF7800gs, 2gig geil ram, soundblaster x-fi. These specs are well within the required specs for GW, in fact these specs murder GW. The same happens on my works machine which, as I said, is connected via a different ISP. So Its neither that my PC is crap or my ISP.

It is becoming soooo frustrating. Sometimes I can run past a mob fine but I'd say 4 times out of 10 the rubber band problem happens. I have also heard of others having the same problem.

Another example happened last night, a group of us were off down sorrow's furnace and one of the guys didn't have the war camp. No problem I said, I'll run you from rankor to there, won't take long. So off we all go, get into grenths footprint no problem I start running up to the war camp and pass a group of enemies. One of the guys on teamspeak then asks why I am standing still? I reply that I am not, he says "well on my screen you are". Next thing I am rubber banded back into the mob I had passed, into the spot where he said I was standing.

So whilst on my screen I had past the mob, on everyone else screen and as far as the game is concerned I had not. This to me, and my limited programming skill, appears to be a bug in the network code between the communication of the client and the server.

Again, please please please, Anet, take a look into it because it is really really frustrating!

EatMoreCarbs · Jan 06, 2007, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Everybody has this problem. Its been stated and i dont think Anet has adressed the problem. We'll just have to continue trying to play an unplayable game.

Seren!ty · Jan 06, 2007, 04:41 PM // 16:41

I have this rarely but I think it's caused by lag. (delay between you and the server) so I don't think there is much ANet can do about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EatMoreCarbs

Everybody has this problem. Its been stated and i dont think Anet has adressed the problem. We'll just have to continue trying to play an unplayable game.

Exaggerating?

LONGA · Jan 06, 2007, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Hmm I think I got that too after that earthquake in Taiwan about a week ago.

Achilles Antony · Jan 06, 2007, 04:42 PM // 16:42

It's been happening to me more than usual lately as well, and it did seem to start around the time of nightfall's release. Over the last few days, however, it's been worse than ever. I think this problem has been stated before, and Anet should know about it by now. Whether they know how to fix it is another problem altogether.

random.name · Jan 06, 2007, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Been having this problem since the beginning. Maybe happens once a week, so not nearly as bad as you have it.

FoxBat · Jan 06, 2007, 05:03 PM // 17:03

It's not easy to fix the rubberbanding behavior, client and server communication is minimized in order to reduce bandwith demands on Anet's servers. The client tries to predict to a large extent how monsters are moving about, and the slightest lag will mean they aren't in the same spot on the server as you're seeing on the client. Often enough that can mean your client thinks you have a path that is, in fact, blocked by enemies on the server, but you won't be notified about this until later.

Probably the best fixes would be 1) make the servers more stable (instability probably explains any increases in frequency if these are in fact happening) or 2) improve pathfinding around mobile objects (although the current AI "aggro system" is based on exploiting the bad pathfinding)

Talon one · Jan 06, 2007, 05:13 PM // 17:13

does either of your pcs have a wireless internet connection?

neither my pc nor my connection are very fast, but everything is properly wired and i dont have that problem often.

Zeph · Jan 06, 2007, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

It's not easy to fix the rubberbanding behavior, client and server communication is minimized in order to reduce bandwith demands on Anet's servers. The client tries to predict to a large extent how monsters are moving about, and the slightest lag will mean they aren't in the same spot on the server as you're seeing on the client. Often enough that can mean your client thinks you have a path that is, in fact, blocked by enemies on the server, but you won't be notified about this until later.

Probably the best fixes would be 1) make the servers more stable (instability probably explains any increases in frequency if these are in fact happening) or 2) improve pathfinding around mobile objects (although the current AI "aggro system" is based on exploiting the bad pathfinding)

Great post! I think you are spot on in what your saying. I do hope they can find a fix because a online game really needs accurate net code or the quality of the gameplay suffers, as we are seeing here.

@ Talon one: No. My home PC is connected via Ethernet to a server pc, which is connected via a pci adsl modem. My works PC connects directly to the net via usb modem. It's easy to 'not' get the problem, just avoid anything that involves any type of running. If you don't run past mobs often then you won't get the problem often. Whilst fighting the problem is rarely noticeable.

@ Seren!ty: If it was purely lag I think there would be some other tell tale signs. For example the new fps/ping monitor would show orange/red either during the rubber banding or just after (depending on its update speed). You would also see the same rubberband effect by just running along with no enemies about, if it was purely lag you would be pulled back just as often, but you don't - it only happens when your trying to run past a mob.

Yanman.be · Jan 06, 2007, 05:47 PM // 17:47

FoxBat...what about PvP? The client can't predict human control can it?

mrgoat · Jan 06, 2007, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

It's not easy to fix the rubberbanding behavior, client and server communication is minimized in order to reduce bandwith demands on Anet's servers. The client tries to predict to a large extent how monsters are moving about, and the slightest lag will mean they aren't in the same spot on the server as you're seeing on the client. Often enough that can mean your client thinks you have a path that is, in fact, blocked by enemies on the server, but you won't be notified about this until later.

Probably the best fixes would be 1) make the servers more stable (instability probably explains any increases in frequency if these are in fact happening) or 2) improve pathfinding around mobile objects (although the current AI "aggro system" is based on exploiting the bad pathfinding)

Exactly what foxbat says.

The rubber-banding is a side effect of heavy client-side prediction, which is being used to keep bandwidth requirements down. If you do less of it, you'll need more frequent updates from the server too keep similar responsiveness, which will essentially increase your lag, given the same internet infrastructure.

Instead of the occasional rubber-band, you'd just stand there getting hit. What you don't see in the current setup, is all the times you're not getting rubber-banded, and the client-side prediction is helping your gameplay. Your computer is "guessing" what's most likely to happen next - you rubber band when it's wrong, and your "lag" is corrected for when it's right.

Lose one, lose the other.

Vinraith · Jan 06, 2007, 06:01 PM // 18:01

My understanding is that rubber banding is due to lag, and the lag's been awful lately. Last night I actually had a disconnect from the server despite my actual DSL connection having no problems at all.

Zeph · Jan 06, 2007, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrgoat

Exactly what foxbat says.

The rubber-banding is a side effect of heavy client-side prediction, which is being used to keep bandwidth requirements down. If you do less of it, you'll need more frequent updates from the server too keep similar responsiveness, which will essentially increase your lag, given the same internet infrastructure.

Instead of the occasional rubber-band, you'd just stand there getting hit. What you don't see in the current setup, is all the times you're not getting rubber-banded, and the client-side prediction is helping your gameplay. Your computer is "guessing" what's most likely to happen next - you rubber band when it's wrong, and your "lag" is corrected for when it's right.

Lose one, lose the other.

I understand the basics of how client side prediction works in a gaming environment. I know that it helps more than it hinders but it is still causing problems therefor it needs looking at. I don't agree with your "lose one lose the other" comment however, its not like I am saying that they should disable client side network prediction (hell I remember what it was like messing with the old hl1 engine's client prediction settings and how it messed up game play with teleporting players), all I am saying is this; if it's a bug it should be fixed and if it's not a bug then maybe they should look at revising the net code or at least the server/client update frequency.

Otherwise, what is the point in having speed buffs in a game where the network code can't update fast enough to allow them to be used without problem?

Mr_T_bot · Jan 06, 2007, 06:21 PM // 18:21

A major step into fixing this would be fixing the path-finding that has been bad since the game released and is progressively getting worse as each area is looked at less and less for path finding problems.

Tactical-Dillusions · Jan 06, 2007, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Very annoying problem. Try not to get close when running past enemies. Easier said than done in tunnels/caves/ravines/alleys/streets/bridges/enemy clusters... yeah most of the environment.

Tachyon · Jan 06, 2007, 06:36 PM // 18:36

It's especially irritating when you're just 25K XP away from gaining 'Legendary Survivor' and you find yourself bounced back into shedloads of enemies only to die.

Character deleted FTL!

LONGA · Jan 06, 2007, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talon one

does either of your pcs have a wireless internet connection?

neither my pc nor my connection are very fast, but everything is properly wired and i dont have that problem often.

His qoute remind me a solution on P2P file sharing program.So I visit the GW support site and come up with a method called port forwarding.

This site should tell you how to do it. http://www.portforward.com

Cookie for Talon One

Zeph · Jan 06, 2007, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by LONGA

His qoute remind me a solution on P2P file sharing program.So I visit the GW support site and come up with a method called port forwarding.

This site should tell you how to do it. http://www.portforward.com

Cookie for Talon One

Sorry but port forwarding has nothing at all to do with the problem here.

FelixCarter · Jan 06, 2007, 08:28 PM // 20:28

ROFL! Didn't any of you hear? This is the new "anti-running" program. The Nightfall update also included this little bastard in its programming, which ANet is sure will deter citizens of Tyria, Cantha, and Elona from running people to areas they have not yet unlocked through the storyline.

...

Oh wait, that's what gates are for. Nevermind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azagoth

It's especially irritating when you're just 25K XP away from gaining 'Legendary Survivor' and you find yourself bounced back into shedloads of enemies only to die.

Character deleted FTL!

This is why Survivor title is just stupid. It's the only title that once you lose, it's gone forever. On top of that, there's a 90% chance the server will decide it loathes the world and turn emo, thus cutting your character.

nytestalker · Jan 06, 2007, 08:29 PM // 20:29

use click 2 move. Its server side, you wont rubber band.

Personally, I use WASD and c2m. I c2m long distances, OR whenever im getting through a pack of bodies.

Dont just complain about something, learn to work WITH it.

If you know your opponet is WASD'ing (which isnt hard to tell once you use c2m for a bit) c2m through a large mass of mobs/players, and most likely he will rubberband.